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Hi everybody! I'm wondering about the safety of the keyless system on board the Ateca. I have no Ateca yet (build date starts on Monday) so I have no keyless system in possession.

I found this article at German ADAC web site about them testing keyless systems. I could not find the Ateca listed of model tested. The tested cars was easily stolen and the car thiefs used electronic equipment only.

Her is an english video telling the story:


What do you think? Is the keyless system safe or not?
 

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Probably best not to leave your keys on a coffee table in full view so the thief knows who's car it belongs too and keep them at the back of the house. Mine stay in my coat pocket and I throw my coat on the back seat when driving. Yes something worth thinking about. I always use key less entry and locking. Keep an eye open for people buddying up to you when leaving the car is possibly the message to take away, not advertising it's your car and placement of keys at home.
 

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Like all security systems, keyless has its vulnerabilities, and beyond that thieves now make use of the OBDII port to clone keys and steal cars. It is understood that with 'many' cars, even the alarm ultrasonic sensors can have "blind spots" and a thief can still break a window without detection and attempt to access the OBDII port (must be contortionists to do that!).

A Mr Google search will bring up many relevant articles and solutions; London & SE is particularly hot spot for theft of keyless, esp high end Range Rover, BMW, Audi etc.

Here are some links:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/12/cars-risk-keyless-entry-system-hacked-volkswagen

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/how-to-prevent-car-theft/

http://www.clifford.co.uk/BMW_OBD_Theft.html

As Tell says, in many cases, just good old fashioned care of keys and checking vehicle locking helps. In fact, it's best on the Ateca just to use the door handle locking & unlocking as this prevents any "code grabbing" if using the key fob ! :D
 

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Nothing will stop a determined thief. In fact it could be argued that if they simply drive the car away, at least if / when its recovered, there's no damage to the wiring system or smashed windows or whatever. Theft is a fact of life, that's why we pay £££'s for insurance.

Just reading Tell's post above on preventative measures, but that's not how it works - the signal from the key only travels a few meters so the thief is hardly going to target your home.

Nope, the way it works is Tell drives his car in to Waitrose Car Park, two theives clock an Xcellence which they know has keyless entry, see it's an old geezer behind the wheel and know he's going for his free coffee. Tell then goes in to the store with his mug, selects 'Latte' and whilst his cup is being filled, the customer behind stands waiting in the queue with his cup. The difference is, he also has a booster device in his pocket which he triggers when standing behind Tell, his mate then opens / starts / and drives off with Tells car - and Tell is none the wiser, he's just feeling smug because that's his 7th free coffee this week! :D

As I say, there's little we can do against a determined thief. A simple label on the window "Tracker Device fitted" is as good as anything, but even that won't deter some.
 

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It's something I have thought about, because when I'm sitting in an armchair in my lounge of an evening I can look across the room and the car is parked about 6 feet from the window - maybe 4 metres away from me and the key fob in my pocket. Might have to look at being a bit more careful in future... perhaps some practical testing of how close I have to be before the car will recognise that key.
 

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PaulT00 said:
It's something I have thought about, because when I'm sitting in an armchair in my lounge of an evening I can look across the room and the car is parked about 6 feet from the window - maybe 4 metres away from me and the key fob in my pocket. Might have to look at being a bit more careful in future... perhaps some practical testing of how close I have to be before the car will recognise that key.
Paul, that is not a risk, believe me I've tried out the keyless entry from close than that. The key needs to be in much closer proximity to the car for it to open by the door handle pull!
Per my earlier post, I am still of the opinion that there is a greater risk of potential "code grabbing" by locking / unlocking via the press of the key fob from any distance; so I do this in proximity by the door handle method only. None of this can or does protect however against OBDII port key cloning or or other means of theft.

These days manufacturers are all into "convenience" with the rise now for eg BMW, Vauxhall and others with phone app convenient locking / unlocking / vehicle location; these too will have security weaknesses, possibly inherent in the app, or the login & access security thereto.

As Golfmk56 notes, vehicle theft is just always a risk, and these days even the key may not be needed..... :shock:
 

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Thanks, mcderms - that is quite reassuring in these complex and difficult times! :?
I was concerned because with the current Altea, there have been instances where we've gone out to the car the following morning and all the windows are down; which I've tended to put down to accidentally leaning on the unlock button on the fob, while in a pocket... but if the key needs to be closer than that then I'm less concerned.
 

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Hi - I have also read and heard of increasing numbers of thefts relating to keyless systems, although none specifically name SEAT. Although high end vehicles tend to be the target - Range Rover, BMW, Mercedes etc. - lower value vehicles also being targeted, Ford Focus and Fiesta especially. I assume that thefts are not just for selling on/shipping out but also for spare parts on popular models like Fords. I don't think the Ateca is a real target right now in terms selling on, but in terms of the engine it shares with VW, Skoda etc could make it a target. I may be completely wrong in this line of thought, and stand to be corrected, but this does concern me a bit. For that reason I have decided to resort to ye olde trusted Disklok. Yes, it's heavy, a bit of a pain but is giving me peace of mind as I know it will need someone with an angle grinder to remove - and that will take them time and create loads of noise. Chances are they will simply see the Disklok and not bother. You can also take the view that car theft is a fact of life and that is what insurance is for, but we all know losing your car and getting a replacement is going to be very painful, time consuming and expensive.

If anyone is interested, you can see info around the Dislok here

http://www.disklokuk.co.uk/
 

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Golfmk56 said:
Nothing will stop a determined thief. In fact it could be argued that if they simply drive the car away, at least if / when its recovered, there's no damage to the wiring system or smashed windows or whatever. Theft is a fact of life, that's why we pay £££'s for insurance.

Just reading Tell's post above on preventative measures, but that's not how it works - the signal from the key only travels a few meters so the thief is hardly going to target your home.

Nope, the way it works is Tell drives his car in to Waitrose Car Park, two theives clock an Xcellence which they know has keyless entry, see it's an old geezer behind the wheel and know he's going for his free coffee. Tell then goes in to the store with his mug, selects 'Latte' and whilst his cup is being filled, the customer behind stands waiting in the queue with his cup. The difference is, he also has a booster device in his pocket which he triggers when standing behind Tell, his mate then opens / starts / and drives off with Tells car - and Tell is none the wiser, he's just feeling smug because that's his 7th free coffee this week! :D

As I say, there's little we can do against a determined thief. A simple label on the window "Tracker Device fitted" is as good as anything, but even that won't deter some.
Maybe the answer is to choose Capuccino or Americano which will then fool the potential car thief? :lol:

Not forgetting that if the key is no longer in proximity, the engine will cut out after a certain length of time.
 

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PaulT00 said:
Thanks, mcderms - that is quite reassuring in these complex and difficult times! :?
I was concerned because with the current Altea, there have been instances where we've gone out to the car the following morning and all the windows are down; which I've tended to put down to accidentally leaning on the unlock button on the fob, while in a pocket... but if the key needs to be closer than that then I'm less concerned.
Paul - to be clear, what I'm saying is that c. 4m is too far away for just the proximity sensors to communicate with the key and allow you to unlock/lock the car using only the door handle method.

However, even at that distance there's every chance that accidentally operating the key fob to open the car, or putting all windows down, will still happen as the fob sends out a different signal that way, and it may well be within range of the vehicle sensors for that; the two situations are different :D
 

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My biggest fear is the theft of the sat nav units!

I work in Bradford and the theft of VW group sat nav units is a massive problem here!

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14566770.Surge_in__sat_nav__thefts_from_Volkswagen_group_vehicles_provokes_police_warning/

One of my colleagues had her VW Tiguan broken into twice in the space of a couple of months and the sat nav was ripped out of the dash! She ended up having to sell the car and buy a Nissan Qashqai instead.

Does anyone know if the sat nav units fitted in the Ateca are more secure?

I was adamant that I wouldn't buy a VW group car while I worked in Bradford because of this issue, however after test driving the Ateca it was too good to resist!
 

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mcderms said:
PaulT00 said:
Thanks, mcderms - that is quite reassuring in these complex and difficult times! :?
I was concerned because with the current Altea, there have been instances where we've gone out to the car the following morning and all the windows are down; which I've tended to put down to accidentally leaning on the unlock button on the fob, while in a pocket... but if the key needs to be closer than that then I'm less concerned.
Paul - to be clear, what I'm saying is that c. 4m is too far away for just the proximity sensors to communicate with the key and allow you to unlock/lock the car using only the door handle method.

However, even at that distance there's every chance that accidentally operating the key fob to open the car, or putting all windows down, will still happen as the fob sends out a different signal that way, and it may well be within range of the vehicle sensors for that; the two situations are different :D
Yup - I did get that - I was worried that the two signals had similar range! But the 'danger zone' is when the key is in a trouser pocket and gets leaned on; with KESSY fitted I think it's quite likely the car key will go in a different pocket (I routinely wear cargos with tightly zipped thigh pockets) which isn't so likely to be leaned/sat on. As long as it's out of range of the KESSY pickup in the car in that situation, that makes life easier; I'll still be able to just walk up to the car and drive it away, but less likely to accidentally open all the doors and windows and not at risk of someone else borrowing it!
 

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Jonny said:
My biggest fear is the theft of the sat nav units!

I work in Bradford and the theft of VW group sat nav units is a massive problem here!

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14566770.Surge_in__sat_nav__thefts_from_Volkswagen_group_vehicles_provokes_police_warning/

One of my colleagues had her VW Tiguan broken into twice in the space of a couple of months and the sat nav was ripped out of the dash! She ended up having to sell the car and buy a Nissan Qashqai instead.

Does anyone know if the sat nav units fitted in the Ateca are more secure?

I was adamant that I wouldn't buy a VW group car while I worked in Bradford because of this issue, however after test driving the Ateca it was too good to resist!
Following the Telegraph piece it's neither the "VW Group RNS 310 and RNS 510 systems", the 8" units are the Discover Pro type where the display is in the centre dash and the gubbins in the glovebox. Suppose to be security mated. So those are the older units.
 

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Thanks Tell.

I'm a bit more reassured now. I just hope the thieves realise this before breaking into cars!!
 

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It's like this the unit is locked down to the central VW system the same one that trips people up playing with map cards

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=265764.10

So unless you find a dodgy dealer you are stuck but then dodgy dealers would be identified as handling stolen goods.
 

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The key needs to be in 1.5m distance or closer. Thats why I hear warning signal when the engine is running and I am not by the car.

I have to find out how to set up the keyless for automatic locking.
 

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VCDS / Obdeleven thing although it will set alarm and lock people in so does have limitations. You could probably turn internal sensor off but then obviously not protecting for breakins.
 

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Hi, going back to the topic..a question to people that already own the car, is is possible to just turn off the Keyless feature ? or is it possible to lock the car in a way that would require you to manually unlock the doors using the button on the key fob?
 

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Faraday cage pouches are one way of preventing someone from boosting your signal to get into the car. My wife's (hopefully) forthcoming Ateca has keyless entry, which she absolutely hates - she was even more chuffed when we started reading about thefts of the things! I've got an F-Pace with keyless on order and have already invested in a Faraday cage, just in case!!
 
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