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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everybody -
Just wondering, does anyone have a feel for how long these cars take to run in, and/or for the engines to 'loosen up'? I've seen posts hopeful of an increase in MPG once the engine has loosened up, but has anyone done enough miles for that to happen? Particularly interested in the 190 diesel - our current Altea XL 2.0TDI had an official 'running in period' of 1000km, but it took nearly 10K miles as I recall for things to loosen up and the car began shifting noticeably quicker... although I wasn't paying that much attention to the MPG at the time so I don't know if that improved. :lol: My main interest (and reason for going for the big diesel) isn't so much fuel economy, but rather how quickly the thing will move and how much of an effort it takes to get it to do so!
 

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It moves, I can tell you that and growls. It can get raucous on hill climbs, more of a snarl. My Altea TDI 2.0 DSG 140 growled than snarled... hope that gives you enough to go on.

You have to be careful with running them in, DSG TDI 2.0, according to Honest John but this was 12 years ago but suspect it hasn't changed. You don't have to treat them too softly which a DSG gear box else they never run in... That's what he said. So use of sport sometimes or being driven hard is good.

Then he also says with diesel regeneration don't go driving around in Eco since that's no good for your catalyst it may get gundged up. I don't use Eco myself, it was too weird driving it in that mode and you have the issue that you aren't working it hard enough for the catalyst to regenerate and it's not helping it run in either.

Basically I'm sticking to drive mode, not using the paddles except when I accidentally catch my hand on them and I take it fast when abroad. Had it's Xmas trip to Germany at 85 mph at some points. It was too icy to try for the 100 mph on the autobahn bit of road one travelled on. However I can report on autobahn you get that nice speed unlimited sign on your front dash from the road maps and trafic sign camera.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
When I took the DSG demonstrator out on test drive, the guy from the dealership seemed quite surprised that I gave it some beans out on the motorway; let's just say that our current Altea XL appears to be one of the select few fitted with the optional Warp Drive from the factory - not sure if it's the car or me, but I've surprised a few people in it (while staying within the law, naturally...). The Ateca DSG should be a fair bit quicker, at least once it's loosened up...

I thought the 190DSG was the smoothest diesel by a long way, and also just about the quietest. According to one of the tech manuals I noticed that it's the only version of the engine fitted with harmonic balancer shafts to smooth out the intrinsic vibration of an inline 4. It certainly wasn't a sluggish thing to drive, whereas the 150 manual seemed 'just ok' from a performance point of view. I just like the (massive) torque!

I suspect I will end up using the paddles a fair bit, at least on the open road (if such a thing still exists in the UK!). The DSG in auto mode seems to be more about saving fuel by changing up pretty early, even when not in Eco mode. Years ago I drove a paddleshift Smart Roadster which was enormous fun flipping up and down the box, and while the technology is different it's just another sort of automated manual box really.
 

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It is quite normally so those reports that say it's unrefined against the 150 are wrong, just written for journalist effect. It only growls or snarls when you want your position on a roundabout.

No I do everything on DSG. On that, the 7 speed DSG isn't hesitant in getting into gear compared with the 6 speed Altea DSG 140 engine. I suspect it's a faster processor in the DSG'S computer rather than anything mechanical which gets the gear box into gear once you press the throttle. It's this lag that you find being talked about by those American guys in their DSG video which if you drove the Altea you knew about. That delay, especially if you had to brake again on a roundabout as a non indicator person drifts around in front of you, so the gear box has to sort the confusion out about what you are really doing. That's why I've disabled stop start since its the last thing you want on a DSG in free moving trafic, cities something different. So yes, the 7 speed DSG is much snappier at getting the gear, may be not always so smoothly changing between gears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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& Saggy is only doing country flat roads in the Lincolnshire fens in the main doing cruise control starts with tractors.... I joke before she gets at me.

I did work out against the standard Altea TDI 140 DSG it gave you a 40 percent increase in power to weight ratio. I don't how that compares with the Altea XL and how much they upped the horsepower over the years. You can do your own figures. It's ahead of the TSI 150 DSG, haven't done the figures for the TSI 150 DSG 4Drive but that will be heavier due to the rear axle / drive train.

It's coming back to me now the figures for the 2004 Altea anyhow, although the Ateca body is bigger (height) the weight is only 5 percent more or less (whatever it was I was surprised). So the chassis in the Ateca is much lighter than you think (MQB), put in a more powerful engine and you have a fair bit of umf in comparison.

So you can work out your own power to weight ratio of your Altea XL against the 190 DSG see what you get.
 

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I can already feel my 1.4 Tsi loosening up in terms of performance after only 300 miles. I was a bit underwhelmed by the performance when I first drove my car but I can literally feel the thing getting quicker with every drive. In terms of economy I hope it does improve as I'm struggling to get much above 36mpg at the moment! :shock:

What I will say is though, all this talk about vibrations, the 1.4 TSI is wonderfully smooth, you're hard pushed to feel it cut in and out on stop / start. I find the Eco mode the best as the power is still there but it makes gear changes very easy and the whole drive is very very smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My calculation looks like this:
Altea XL 2.0Tdi SE manual has 138bhp weighs 1503kg. Convert to imperial tons = 1.479 tons

Power to weight: 93.3 bhp/ton

Ateca 2.0Tdi DSG 4Drive has 187bhp weighs 1610kg = 1.585 tons

Power to weight: 117.98 bhp/ton

So the Ateca is 26% gruntier relatively speaking. :)
 

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Interesting to see that the manual 1.4 Tsi in Xcellence form is 112bhp per ton, not a million miles behind!
 

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Paul

I was working it out too whilst you did... my source Parkers

BHP Weight PWR Ratio
Altea XL 2.0 TDI Stylance (170ps) 5d (not DSG) 167 1469 0.11 1.09
Altea XL 2.0 TDI Stylance 5d - DSG 138 1504 0.09 1.00

Ateca TDI 190 DSG 187 1514 0.12 1.35

Figures:

Altea
http://www.parkers.co.uk/seat/altea/xl-2007/20-tdi-stylance-(170ps)-5d/specs/

Ateca
http://www.parkers.co.uk/seat/ateca/suv-2016/20-tdi-xcellence-4wd-5d-dsg/specs/

You have the Ateca weight as 1610kg which tallies with the Seat site which is probably fully laden

http://www.seat.co.uk/new-cars/new-ateca/technical-data/xcellence.html

Parkers has it as 1469kg.

So I make it a 35 percent increase in power to weight ratio not 26 percent. Yours being an Altea XL and mine was a plain Altea 140 DSG. My figure was 40 percent improvement. You might have shot yourself in the foot by taking a heavier weight for the Ateca from the Seat web site. We agree on the XL weight. My previous comparison were done taking the weight with one drive based on the Seat figures for both the Altea and Ateca. The MQB chassis which helps on the weight.

I'm not going to claim two degrees in mathematics or anything.... ;).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Whichever floats your boat...! :mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tell - I think at this point the difference between 26% more and 35% more is probably academic anywhere in the U.K. outside a racing track. Shall we just agree on VRRRROOOOOOOMMMM!!!! :mrgreen: ?
 

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Take the higher figure. The interesting bit is how the MQB platform doesn't really effect the weight even thou it's 4WD so all the power gain from the engine is use able. My Ateca 4WD is actually lighter than the standard Altea 2.0 TDI DSG. So yes Vroom, that's why I don't bother with manual gear change.

The other thing I notice is that it does better engine breaking going down hills than the Altea did. So it's better behaved. I have made reference to engine braking with Saggy as to the only time I need to take it out of auto once per year abroad. I didn't this year. I did note that in the Altea I use to have to slow it down going down a local hill, Ateca I don't. All DSG talk for anybody reading this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It doesn't get near the 176bhp/ton of my old Impreza Turbo, but it's by no means a slouch. :). Really looking forward to the upgrade from the Altea!
 

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David_S said:
I can already feel my 1.4 Tsi loosening up in terms of performance after only 300 miles. I was a bit underwhelmed by the performance when I first drove my car but I can literally feel the thing getting quicker with every drive. In terms of economy I hope it does improve as I'm struggling to get much above 36mpg at the moment.
I don't want to be underwhelmed :cry:

I also hope that it will do more than 36mpg after coming from a 1.7diesel at one point doing an average of 63mpg. That said the performance in my current car (Vauxhall Mokka) is significantly deteriorating now it has got to 3 yrs old and I am now lucky to get 50mpg out it it now.

As I've said before the one thing worrying me is the economy and fuel efficiency of the 1.4TSI. I had to do a lot of soul searching before opting for the petrol. Too late now though seeing as it arrives a week on Monday!
 

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JLO said:
David_S said:
I can already feel my 1.4 Tsi loosening up in terms of performance after only 300 miles. I was a bit underwhelmed by the performance when I first drove my car but I can literally feel the thing getting quicker with every drive. In terms of economy I hope it does improve as I'm struggling to get much above 36mpg at the moment.
I don't want to be underwhelmed :cry:

I also hope that it will do more than 36mpg after coming from a 1.7diesel at one point doing an average of 63mpg. That said the performance in my current car (Vauxhall Mokka) is significantly deteriorating now it has got to 3 yrs old and I am now lucky to get 50mpg out it it now.

As I've said before the one thing worrying me is the economy and fuel efficiency of the 1.4TSI. I had to do a lot of soul searching before opting for the petrol. Too late now though seeing as it arrives a week on Monday!
Like I say you might be a little underwhelmed initially, the engine feels tight which is to be expected with no miles on the clock. I've only done 350 so I expect it to get better still. I think it's also took some getting used to in terms of how a petrol drives, I was initially driving it like a diesel but you have to remember there is power above 3000rpm in it although it will happily drive below this all day long.

I really do hope the economy will settle above 40mpg though as this is what I've been hoping for. I drive it in economy mode most of the time as the power is still there but it softens the throttle response and makes the gear changes buttery smooth.
 

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Mines running a treat now.
 
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