[Balddee2]

So went in to the local Seat dealer (crewe) this morning with the intention of buying a 1.4 tsi Excellence with 19s only to be told its a minimum of 20 week delay and btw you wont then get the £500 extra discount as it wont arrive before the end of the year. Was then told all 150 2 wd diesels wont be available till April (was aware of that already) hence only option was a lower engine or a 4 wd 150 or 190 diesel. Got a 150 diesel priced up with 19s and could only get the 'standard' £750 off, hence gave up.

30 minutes later ended up securing a newTiguan SEL 150 diesel 4wd with £4500 discount and should be with me in 2/3 weeks. Seems a totally carzy situation launching a car with a lot of the models not being available, will end up doing a lot of damage to the brand. After owning a Leon Cupra R mk2 and an Exeo ST over the last few years looks like I'll be saying farewell to Seat

 

[Tell]

They have also shot themselves in the foot in not having the petrol DSGs. You could say it's unfortunate that the car is so popular that demand has outstripped supply.

In the pre sales period I was concerned that if I had sat on my hands and waited for launch to test drive getting a good deal would be reduced since interest in the car would increase and by early July Seat published the PCPs deals, so my thinking changed from not waiting but just ordering it. It must be galling for those people who have ordered one of the 150 TDI 2WDs to find they have been taken off the order books although they may still get the car.

I did get very close to buying a Tiguan with the frustration of the leather seat only option in the 4WD Ateca. That was most irritating. I even irritated people on the internet for being irritated about it .

I wonder if you had attempted to order the 1.4 tsi in the pre sales period the dealer would have told you what the order delay was ?. The other problem may be is that with the TDI 150 2WD engines being in short supply and taken off the order books, it's put pressure on the 1.4 tsi may be.

I always thought Seat's marking was a bit at odds over the one, got a Leon you will love the Ateca. Skoda do that in the launch of their new model and the Superb. It's so good they can't build enough. Marketing hyperbole doesn't fit in with the reality that you can't buy specific models. If Seat UK had sold the full range of Ateca here in the UK as in Spain and Germany, the product range wouldn't be looking like Swiss cheese. For some reason they reduced the product range against the rest of Europe, my theory was it was the PCP contracts created less choice as they only wanted to work up the finance package and residuals on a limited tight range, but that's only a theory. Cash buyers like me were being effected by the PCP market.

 

[Malcster]

It is surprising all this hasn't been picked up by the UK motoring press

 

[Balddee2]

You definitely did the right thing by getting in early. I do think its crazy that non of the tiguans come with leather, but with that level of discount and the wait period for the spec / engine combo of the Ateca I really wanted it seemed lilke the best route. Added advantage for you who've ordered early will be 6 months of exclusivity on the roads too

 

[Dunn VAG Happy]

It is a shame that they really did underestimate the demand and popularity, i see dealerships selling their demo cars with a couple of months because they will be able to cash in on it!

For a car that could have clearly boosted Seat and doubled their sales the fact that they have so little factory capacity its a shame and could possibly damage the brand.

 

[Fred99]

It is surprising all this hasn't been picked up by the UK motoring press

It will be. It's all over the Spanish press at the moment. At least here we have the option of the 1.4Tsi with DSG. Germany even has a 1.4Tsi with DSG and 4 Drive.

As far as I can see from the UK site, the only DSG available is the top of the range 190PS with 4Drive and DSG.

I have a 1.4Tsi DSG on order. If I did not have a DSG option I would go somewhere else. There is no way that the top of the range model is a sensible option if you don't want a diesel, which I do not.

Seat UK seem to have lost the plot.

 

[Tell]

The 2WD DSG got scuppered in the UK when they pulled the other models, just leaving the 4WD DSG in 190 and the manual 4WD in 150.

Perhaps of interest is that they look after the motherland, no not Spain, Germany and I suspect people have picked up on this one in Spain which may be why they are wound up about it. You would think a Spanish brand would look after the Spanish market, but no it's owned by a German company and they want to keep their own home market happy. You could argue that they have to keep other competitors out of their own German market, keeping Nissan, Renault etc on the back foot.

 

[Fred99]

The Tdi 150 2WD has now been deleted from the German site. The motoring press here in Spain is full of it and the general opinion is that the 150Tdi has failed to get approval, presumably the emissions. The 4WD models use the AdBlue system so have no problems with the EUR6 test.

That seems a plausible explanation, but SEAT is pretty quiet on the subject.

 

[Dunn VAG Happy]

If that was the case it would not be unreasonable to retrofit the AdBlue to the 2WD versions, i think and for my example; business wise if you knew you could make more from the sale of a 4WD to a 2WD surely you would prioritise that way. If they are in the cross over market much like the 1.6 qashqai they are up against they are delivering on that front by it still being available. Correct me if im wrong (its been known) but you cant get a 1.6 4WD or 2.0 2WD qashqai.

The Tiguan however is not marketed as a Cross over but as a compact SUV and not a cross over so is it really fair to compare? Open to discussion.

 

[Newtoseat]

As far as I am aware, all diesel Atecas require Adblue to meet the requirements of Euro 6. It could be that SEAT have somehow missed this configuration out of the homologation process. Note that the 150 TDI manual 4WD is still available which would indicate that it is not purely an engine issue. Part of me suspects that they simply cannot produce sufficient 2WD DSG gearboxes for the demand, hence the limited options in certain markets.
I will be surprised to see this matter in the press, they seem to be sponsored by the manufacturers these days...

 

[Fred99]

According to the Spanish motoring press, only the 4wd versions use Adblue.

 

[Dunn VAG Happy]

Its not effected my order which is a 2.0TDi 4WD manual 150bhp which is currently between the factory and the UK so purely a 2WD thing hence why i think they will prioritise the bigger profit makers for the engine. A lot of people who want 4 Drive want manual, in my opinion anyway and for that its the 150bhp engine.

 

[Tell]

The Guardian got into bed with Seat which is interesting when they are pushing to keep fossil fuels in the ground. The Seat UK gives the advertisary link to the Guardian. Bottom front page on Friday so the pages must have been in the Guardian that day.

The 4WD 150 TDI does use AdBlue. You would think the manual covers which engines use AdBlue. Checked the normal manual doesn't make it clear.

On this Spanish thread

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.clubseatateca.com/temas/emisiones-y-adblue.766/&prev=search

Post 28 they have found Occam's razor

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

I think you would be hard pressed to find Seat owners in the UK talking about conceptual decision theory. See you have to be well educated to own a Seat in Spain .

If you take as true what the guy is talking about which probably isn't said theory then Seat have admitted the issue. Perhaps it is said theory, I much prefer the principle of optimality myself. If you were a research worker you would want that properly referenced, it isn't.

Expressed another way VW seem to have been caught with its pants down on the TDI150 2WD engine if we take as true they haven't sorted out the emissions. How did they get it right for the 4WD TDI150 and 190 but screwed it up on the 2WD. That's when us management scientists hold people to account.

Journalists follow similar rules to researchers that it has to be referenced and evidenced. If VW are keeping silent about why the Ateca 2WD TDI150 was pulled and no customers are suffering from this apart from disappointment then it's probably a minor story.

 

[scimitargtc]

if vw can have the 150 diesel then why not seat - just redirect a few truckloads! we test drove a 1.6 diesel on launch and decided we'll be ordering a 150 diesel dsg until I read this - our money is in direct competition with a nissan qq xtronic but the cost of tyres @ 170 per corner and only last 10k + a new battery at 3 years @ £150 has put me off the QQ & now feel very disenchanted with the whole idea = add to this eldests fully maintained 2007 2.0 diesel stylance Leon oil pump failed ' 106K at the weekend effectively scrapping the car - cars eh who'd bother!

 

[ernieb]

Sorry Een out of the loop for a few days in Cornwall. As I've said before the 150 TDi replaced all the previous 140 TDi units to overcome the 'emissions' issue. So they suddenly needed a whole truck load of these just to keep pace with current models everywhere. Interestingly Skoda have just released a new Press release saying that the Yeti do tunes to grow in sales, having currently sold 580000, so they are increasing current capacity for the Yeti build. More 150 TDi units. Just about every VW and the like use this flexible Euro 6 engine, Euro 6 that's the point even Skoda make in the Press release. Because VW have focuses on diesels the petrol engines are even less available. That is a bitch on any forum connected with VW based products, particularly matched with a DSG. VW are also so far behind others with hybrid technologies Design and manufacture. My new Yeti has a 150TDi and whilst I've only clocked up 1150 miles since 1st Sept I can reassure anyone who has not had the chance to drive a car with this power unit it will be worth the wait. Mine only has a 6 speed DSG but I would guess matched with the new 7 speed DSG units it will be a cracker.

 

[Tell]

Whilst you were away Ernie the Spanish boards have been heating up on this one, Freddie did tip one off today that there had been movement:

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.clubseatateca.com/temas/desaparicion-de-modelos-motorizaciones-en-la-web-y-el-configurador-de-seat.675/page-6&prev=search

Post 1277 if not run through the translater gives you this link but you must have adblocker off to read in Spanish:

http://www.clubseatateca.com/temas/desaparicion-de-motores-en-web-y-configurador-conjeturas-soluciones-credibilidad.675/page-64

with this link for post 1277:

http://www.autopista.es/noticias-motor/articulo/caso-seat-ateca-tdi-4x2-claves

& in English:

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autopista.es%2Fnoticias-motor%2Farticulo%2Fcaso-seat-ateca-tdi-4x2-claves

Why not sell the Ateca Seat 2.0 TDI 150 hp 4x2?

The problem arises at the time that Seat has had to revise emissions production cars since, as we report sources close to the mark, in Ateca 2.0 TDI 150PS front - wheel previous analyzes carried out by engineers the company would not have coincided with the necessary approval.

Contrary to what was happening with their cousins the Tiguan Volkswagen with the same engine and front - wheel drive, participants in the development of Seat Ateca, engineers have not considered essential for their versions with the 2.0 TDI 150 hp were available selective catalyst SCR reduction. Probably, according to his calculations, less complex and costly NOx trap could serve to dissociate naturally these nitrogen oxides, without additives (Adblue), generating gases already in the air.

However, the internal analysis of Seat and car prior to the passage by laboratories approved production could have determined that a NOx trap was not a sufficiently effective action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to the limits set by the standard. This could be the key for the delay, because after those first corresponding analysis prior to approval we insist, and on mass - produced units, no estimates on preproducción- cars, Seat may have determined that it was essential to have a mechanism for SCR Ateca these specific versions of the 2.0 TDI 150 hp front-wheel drive.

This catalyst must, in addition to specific sensors, incorporating a dispensing system of the urea based additive that facilitates NOx reduction. This liquid is known commercially as AdBlue and sprayed into the exhaust line ahead of that element, transforms the NOx in a harmless nitrogen and water.

The data provided by Seat in commercial brochures for the sale of corresponded Ateca, as indicated at the bottom of the SPC, were provisional.

[autopista.es]

Basically it appears that it was a balls up if that's the Queens English, they never installed AdBlue into the system, VW do on the Tiguans or if they did there was an issue with the measurements. Seat is offering in Spain a free 4x4 190 DSG upgraded to people who have ordered the TDI150 although the first link of Seat users aren't so happy about what's in the upgrade.

I'm sure Freddie will fill in the details.

 

[Fred99]

The 2WD manual versions ordered will be given 4WD manual versions. 2WD DSG orders will be given the 190ps 4WD DSG versions.

This was reported in El Mundo, a major national newspaper and members on the Spanish forum have confirmed that they have received this offer. SEAT have yet to explain exactly why the problem arose and seem to be sticking to the "excess orders" excuse.

 

[Tell]

My feeling is Seat don't like talking about Adblue so I can't find a table that shows which of the TDI engines in the Ateca range use it, if you could, then you would hope to see that AdBlue use isn't marked up against the engine that they intended to ship. It's probably in their own technical manuals for sure but nothing released by the company for the public to read.

As things stand you are left believing that they have a much better supply of the TDI190 engine, but of course this begs the question of what is so special with the TDI150 fitted to the 4WD manuals, that being that we know it uses AdBlue. So their apparent cover story doesn't make sense once they started to give away upgrades.

Still for those effected they get a proper 4WD out of it rather than a pretend 4WD....

 

[Newtoseat]

Well nobody has offered me an upgrade yet and SEAT aren't replying to my emails. Watch this space I suppose :roll:

 

[Malcster]

Here is tha El Mundo article in Spanish

http://www.elmundo.es/motor/2016/09/13/57d82071e2704ef0018b460d.html