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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ordered our new Ateca with the standard Nav which is built into the Xcellence trim level. Discussed it with the dealer, but info on precisely what the difference is between Nav and Nav Plus seems hard to come by.
The brochures obviously tell you that Nav Plus comes with SEAT Sound, and you get the spare wheel with it so they have somewhere to put the subwoofer. And there's another USB port, a second SD card slot or something like that, plus a '10GB hard drive' (why did they bother when I'm carrying 128GB of iPhone in my pocket?). But it's not clear beyond that on what the functional differences are in the actual navigation function itself. Can anyone shed any light?

As I was pretty keen to have a flat (or nearly) boot floor, we went with standard Nav plus the double floor and no spare wheel, and of course standard stereo system. But I'm wondering if I should have gone with Nav Plus instead... :? and of course as I haven't even got a build date yet we could change it over if there's a compelling reason?
 

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I thought long about it, but in my opinion it offers very little for the money. You can play DVD videos, but only when you are not driving. The 10 gb "hard drive" is a joke. The Nav is apparently slightly different and you can have a SIMM card to give you WiFi in the car. Fine if you have three kids in the back with their own tablets, but who exactly will pay the data charges? I went for the basic Nav plus the extra bits like the Seat Sound and spare wheel, connectivity etc.

Tell has it, no doubt he will explain the differences in more detail.
 

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& here comes Tell :).

Thanks for that Freddie I forgot about the DVD ... will edit it in :).

I did order it and I have got it.

The Seat information isn't clear about what it is and is inaccurate. First it's not a hard disk drive it's solid state, like SSD. Seem to recall 64 GB. 10GB are spare and you can use as a "Jukebox". It comes with the Gracenotes database which I think does your album art but I do myself. Certainly when I put an SD card in, it pops up Gracenotes.

Because it's all solid state it's faster than the mapping running off the SD card, but nobody knows how much - this is what the German VW boards say as well. It uses 3D maps so in town buildings will be given the height in the 3D projection so when you are driving in town you get a better idea of where you are. I have caught site of it doing that as one drove through Lille. The standard system doesn't do that, not to that extent.

It has wifi, this is essentially so you can pair it up to a media player rather than the cable. I've experimented. This you can only do with an Android as I understand since iPhones won't act as Media Servers. It will also sends out a SSID but that drowns out other SSIDs so I turned that back off again.

Since you have the maps in solid state you actually have two spare SD cards so I use both mine for my FLAC music collections that I've been Flaccing since June... not there yet. At 193GB on that so far, another draw of minidiscs to go... Split them down the centre by alphabetic letter into two 128 GB cards.

The unit looks identical to the standard unit. The extra stuff is hidden behind the CD / SD unit in the glove box (it's actually a DVD drive). You only know it's a Navigation Plus when you press source and you see JukeBox shown although obviously the service menu will tell you. It comes with the maps on the drive so no issue with the card getting lost.

Edit..oh I forgot it plays DVDs and video files held on USB / SD if stationary or you can hack the car's system via the device on the other thread or other devices, adjust the speed limiter and break the law. It does have a nice touch thou if you buy CDs abroad whilst travelling rather than playing them off the DVD / CD player you can copy them to the Juke box so you can keep the CD pristine for converting to FLAC when you get home.

I would say it is a luxury. German folk like them. It's the equivalent of the VW Discovery Pro although what they have added to it is slightly different. It's a MIB2. You don't get VW Car Net but then I don't think VW owners get that in the UK in any case. You will see that people specify them on the German Ateca boards.

In the UK the Xcellence comes with the standard unit priced in, on the continent they are priced in differently. I think it's over priced in the UK and falls victim to how Seat haven't got their pricing right and bundle the standard unit in, effectively you pay for the navigation unit again when you buy the Plus unit. There should just be an upgrade cost, not walloped with the full price of the enhanced unit some of which you have already paid.

The other thing to consider is if you are one of these connected people that wants to run their maps off their Android and iPhones and think that's better there is no point in spending the extra for the Plus unless you want the two SD slots the Juke box for music storage you got the phone for that. A lot to be said for built in car navigation over the mobile device based, but saying that when I'm acting as the navigator in foreign parts I'll have them all switched on and look between them. Handheld GPS app running a track over where ones been and the track to follow, Google maps running on a tablet and the car's system doing it's bit. Car systems give you better lane guidance and don't jump roads as the navigation signal drops.

It comes back to what I said earlier about the Navigation Plus being a luxury and whether you are prepared to pay for it. For me, I don't have to flip SD cards when I'm going through my music collection which is all lossless and don't keep duplicates in MP3 / MP4 etc, that's the tangible benefit I have realised, speed I'd need the standard one to test against.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks, Tell - that's extremely useful... why can't SEAT themselves make such info available? It's almost as bad as IBM in the bad old days of FUD!
As far as my take on it is concerned, it seems very expensive for what you get, and like you I'm confused that you don't just pay the difference to upgrade from standard Nav off the Xcellence spec!
I don't know that any of the extra stuff is particularly useful; I've actually driven all over the place for the last 30-odd years without ever needing or wanting a satnav system. All my music is on my iPhone. Hardly ever watch DVDs at home, let alone in the car. Never bother with SD cards.
The only thing which does concern me slightly has to do with the WiFi aspect.
At the moment, Full Link technology does require a cable. There was some speculation that at some point, it might be upgraded to become wireless - i.e. pair the phone and let it just get on with things without having to faff with a bit of wire.
Given the rather limited bandwidth of Bluetooth, it would make far more sense to just have a WiFi base station in the car and integrate via that. If the Nav+ includes a WiFi hub, it would make sense to do it that way; but of course if it should go that way, instead of finding a way to compress the datastream and funnel it through Bluetooth, if one has the standard Nav (which presumably doesn't have the electronics to do WiFi) then one would be - as it were - locked out of the enhanced capability with no way to upgrade. Of course this is all paranoid supposition anyway, and there's no guarantee that such upgrades would be made available for retrofit by SEAT anyway.
Any feelings one way or the other?

The other thing of course is the inclusion of SEAT Sound, but as I'm not a great fan of thumpa-thumpa bass I can't see there would be a huge improvement off the standard 8 speaker system in an Xcellence spec car, and it conflicts with the double boot floor which provides a flat load space.
 

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I do value the spare wheeler rather than a tyre kit. I returned from Luxembourg once on a spare skinny wheel on a Sunday where every tyre place was closed, so it saved cancelling the ferry booking and an extra night and a hungry cat. Some tyre damage a repair kit is no good, this was a ruptured side wall... I've always stuck to having a spare although saying this I haven't had a repeat of this for about 15 years but it's there when you need it.

I suspect if they went wifi on that connection they would have to update the unit or perhaps not. The cabling for full link does also mitigate the usefullness of the wireless charger as some have pointed out on here. The Navi Plus does connect up a media server on an Android phone, since library won't fit on 128gb I didn't take it any further and have it on two SD cards. I think it would also connect up to a home media server if you were washing the car say.

I think from what you have said navigation isn't a priority I've been driving all over Europe for twenty years and swear by it. Use it in Japan, Australia, North Africa and the Middle East as a way of getting around (hand held GPS is good on trains and busses as well so you don't get off early or late :)). I don't pack paper maps now. Do a bit of hiking and walking so need the precise location.... don't pack a compass either.

It would have eaten me up if I hadn't bought the Navigation Plus thinking about what I was missing. Doing a bit more reading today. The Navigation Plus is the MIB 2 High whilst the standard unit is the MIB 2 Standard. VW Discovery Pro is the MIB 2. There is a different chipset in the two units. When you use the VW / Skoda POI and destination software it writes out the files where you do read MIB 2 High etc.

Seat sound system, subwoofer, you do get the base sound, you can adjust down and you also get a centre speaker in the console which is a mid range / base speaker in addition to the rest. There is a lot of base floating about in the car if you want it with the Seat sound system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know what you mean about the spare wheel; having said which (touch wood) I've not needed to change a wheel on anything in the last 10 years or thereabouts. Last one was on my other half's old Leon Cupra (original shape 180bhp version) which we had for 6 years before buying the Altea XL nearly 7 years ago. Before that it was a rear tyre on my old 2000/W Impreza Turbo after a (*&$%^ slashed it one night around 2002...

I'd probably have a spare wheel if I could, but as I'm regularly to be found ferrying large quantities of shopping and multiple 30 litre sacks of cat litter around (probably best not to ask!) I hate the idea of having a lip on the load area. The Altea has a flat loadspace entry, but I borrowed an Ibiza courtesy car a while back which had a 3" lip around the boot floor and managed to catch my fingers multiple painful times while unloading a single bootful of heavy objects! The double boot floor option allows me to flatten the space out except for a slight speed bump on the edge, while there is a distinct lip there on cars with the spacesaver spare fitted. Might have to take another look before the build date is frozen and/or spec becomes unchangeable, and see if I should change it... it's a pain that you can't have both a flat floor and a spare wheel in a 4Drive car!

In absolute emergencies there's always Britannia Rescue, which is included with the car insurance on the policy we have at the moment.

The navigation thing - I haven't driven outside the UK, but I can imagine it would be a huge help to have local satnav in an unfamiliar country. I suppose I'm pretty lucky in that I've almost always been able to navigate in this country by landmarks and dead reckoning; these days I look at Google maps for the general direction and relevant motorway junctions if I've never been somewhere before, maybe print the detailed map of the destination for reference. I'm sure I'll use the satnav if it's there, but it's not likely to be something I'd rely on entirely. Vast majority of the driving I do is between known locations anyway, and having found somewhere once I rarely have a problem returning to it.

I may need to think things over some more. There's certainly time, as delivery on the current timescales I've been quoted is going to be pushing it to hit 1st March and I haven't even got a build slot yet...
 

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I came from an Altea for 12 years and had the double floor with a full size space and flat load area which you talk about :). You do loose a lot of lower floor space with the Ateca 4Drive and you might find you won't get much under there even if you don't have the spare wheel. It depends where the floor stops at the place of the 4Drive with spare or a little above. Some people were trying to go higher by ordering bits but haven't read any more about that. That's to get that 3" back so no lip. I'm assuming your double boot levels off at the same place as the one with the spare..... this is where someone was looking at taking it higher to the same level as non 4Drives.

I use to carry a small container of oil standanding up, probably about 5 or 6 inches can't do that now under the floor. I lost about 90 percent of my underfloor area between the Altea and the Ateca.

The Ateca is definitely short on cubby space after the Altea. Best described as a minimalist interior.
 

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The demo car's sound was far too fuzzy for my liking, the Seat Sound is heaps, I mean *heaps* better. You don't have to have the bass up, I've turned mine up a little, I'm more a rock/pop/indie beast than hip-hop but even so. The extra floor thing works well with the spare wheel, and we wouldn't be without one of those since belluszyra had a puncture with a massive piece of metal stuck in the tyre that no amount of self-repair kit would fix. We intend using the space between the floor and the wheel-well to keep a blanket or two.
 

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I have a bit of London Grammar and electro tango, bit of Bill Frisell, bit of African, bit of Rai, bit of Kraftwerk (you have to have fun, fun, fun when on the Autobahn), bit of Martyn Bennett, Nils Petter Molvaer, Public Service Broadcasting, The 1975s, bit of everything other than traditional pop. London Grammar like their base lines so you know which it's going to work on as the base goes off on it's own thing - prefer an instrument rather than a drum for that.

I got my tow rope down there, jump leads, first aid kit, a few tools, a big wheel wrench thing, one blanket on the back seat and one under the passenger seat. The container of oil and spare washer fluid bottle in a velcro VW free holder stuck onto the back. A Lidl tidy on the other side with the fire extinguisher etc. Electric tyre pump in the left hole side and three assorted sprays on the right, windscreen, de-icer and water. Plus the over sized triangle at the back of the boot to protect the oil container from the chiller box or bags from hitting it. Big torch has to go under the seat, no room in he boot now.

I am happy with the Seat Sound System although I may twig the settings again as the speakers wear in. The sound is better than what it was in the original Altea that I took out, so when I invested in it, I wasn't planning on changing it so it has lived up to expectations. Now whether it's better than what I put in my old Altea, possibly. I didn't have a subwoofer in that.

Getting back onto subject, the power output on the Navigation Plus is twice that of the standard navigation... forgot that one.
 

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That's probably on price since its an older model although I note performance on one looked better. I wanted to replace the small 256gb drive in my laptop and partners notebook with a more sensible sized drive equivalent to a desk / tower unit.

I already had a hard disk drive dock, like this

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Docking/SuperSpeed-USB-3-eSATA-Hard-Drive-Docking-Station-with-Cooling-Fan~SATDOCKU3SEF

So you clone onto that, open up the case and put the new drive in. You can buy a cable and plug for that, you see them sold along side for the task.

Samsung cloning software is fine for when the volume is split, c / d but won't handle dual operating system booting like Windows / Linux. You have to use something else.

If you are putting it into a tower unit you can buy frames either to use a card slot or a drive slot plus cabling if the unit hasn't got it or too short. I used a card slot and kept the old drive in. Also for that I put an esata card in to the higher standard to get maximum throughput since these SSD s support the old and new standard. That was a Startech card.

I know we have drifted off topic...

You do get very fast boot and they run pretty fast although boot up can sometimes hang in Windows 10, haven't got to the bottom of that.
 

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Tell said:
Getting back onto subject, the power output on the Navigation Plus is twice that of the standard navigation... forgot that one.
I'm not sure that completely true. The "Russian" tech manual says the Nav system has 4 x 25w channels, presumably with 4 pairs of speakers. The Nav + has the same 4 x 25w channels and has two additional 35w channels, presumably for the two extra speakers (rear woofer and centre front).

That suggests that the basic Nav has the same amplifier, as when you add the two extra speakers by specifying the basic Nav plus the SEAT Sound, they must plug in somewhere. So, yes, the Nav plus has more power but only because it comes with 10 speakers. The Nav is the same, but does not use the extra power unless specified with 10 speakers.
 

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P45 of the manual. I'm glad I'm keeping you on yours toes.

I'm taken it as written on the page. The 10 speaker system on the standard navigation isn't documented :). Page 44 just just 8 channels.

I know on other boards people have looked for the power amp of the 10 speaker system believing it was hidden somewhere. What one needs is the full technical documentation of the MIB2 Standard against the MIB2 High which might resolve the outputs. The German board names the chipset for the High which is different to the Standard. All the gubbins is behind the glove box and the centre console is just a common display. Page 43.
 

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Well, the basic Nav must have the extra channels or you could not specify SEAT Sound with it.

If the Nav plus had a more powerful amp then the basic 4 channels would be more than 25w, which they are not, if you believe your Russian manual.
 

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Ah well it's the J525, page 21, how's your Russian ?.

Second link to the SSP 546 manual in Russian

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=pps+546+passat+vwts.ru&oq=pps+546+passat+vwts.ru&gs_l=tablet-gws.12...15238.15238.0.16511.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.2.64.tablet-gws..1.0.0.i2HU-cjcTJE

That manual covers the MIB2 in the Passat. I've found the English manual but I'm not going to login on for that. Page 21 is the 8 speaker system so the modified Seat options of the Discovery Pro use the J525 unit which is the power amp I would think which is used in the 10 channel setup in the Ateca given the modules are the same. This is what people have been looking for on VW cars.

Example of the search for the J525, under the seat in a Golf mk7

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201684

Documentation on it here

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j525+seat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=TcxeWNbvLrPA8gezgLuwCw

So it's pretty clear that the 10 speaker system will have the J525 module somewhere in the car, otherwise called the digital sound system control module.

Bit more fodder

http://www.vwgolf.org/digital_sound_package_control_unit_j525_vehicles_with_volkswagen_sound_system-2704.html

The "MOST" data bus is an optical link. "Media Orientated System Transport"

P47 of the Ateca technical manual shows "MOST" not used but then their is no apparent speaker output shown on the back. Quad lock is said to have the speaker output in it but I think that's only for the 8 speaker setup.

We need someone to pull their unit apart... with and without the Seat Sound System won't be me.

Either its used in the Seat Sound System Ateca or they are cheap skates and we don't get the J525 in the Seat Sound System. Need an expert on the Quadlock pin out as to whether it supports 10 speakers or not.

(I've probably let the cat out of the bag on the RX5, R205, R182, R50... I've never felt the need for a shark fin :). )
 
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