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Autho Hold and DSG question?

13K views 32 replies 9 participants last post by  Fred99 
#1 ·
I haven't driven automatics so probably I have the wrong assumption but here's my question. I assume with an automatic you release the brakes slowly and that's what corresponds to slipping the clutch, i.e. the car will start creeping a little which will help in moving the car in very small steps. However it seems the Auto Hold function won't allow it because whenever you stop, Auto Hold will engage and then even if you release the brakes, the car won't move so you won't have clutch slipping but will have to press the throttle and that means fully engaged clutch and probably harsh take-off? Or am I wrong? Do you disengage Auto Hold when maneuvering in very small steps?

Furthermore, on my manual, when doing this little maneuvering, I use the clutch pedal for slipping hence start/stop won't stop the engine. However on an automatic the start/stop will stop the engine each time the car is fully stop, i.e. between each small step?

I guess I am wrong but before I get my Ateca which seems to be in many months, I can only theorize about how I will use the DSG which will be an entirely new concept to me :D
 
#2 ·
You don't need the clutch, a light press of the accelerator sees you move off very slowly, Autohold can case a little jerkiness as it disengages (at least I find that) but its a lot easier than a manual car.
 
#3 ·
The start/stop system only engages when the car is about to come to a full stop and the brake pedal is pressed firmly enough. And the system only cuts out the engine one time on a normal junction, don't know how it does in big traffic jams though.
I find that I can actually 'bypass' the s/s by pressing the brake gently and come to a stop.
Furthermore there is a botton on the dash to inactivate the s/s if you don't want it at all.
You have to press the button again when you start the car if you want it disengaged as it won't stay that way.
 
#4 ·
Yes, the car creeps as soon as you release the brake if AH is off. If it is on, a touch of throttle will release it. Whether it is harsh or not depends on your right foot! For tight situations such as parking, etc. I prefer to switch it off.
 
#5 ·
Fred99 said:
Yes, the car creeps as soon as you release the brake if AH is off. If it is on, a touch of throttle will release it. Whether it is harsh or not depends on your right foot! For tight situations such as parking, etc. I prefer to switch it off.
That's what I wanted to hear. Thanks, mate. And when you switch off Auto Hold, it will stay off until you switch it on, right? Even if you restart the car?
 
#7 ·
Thanks, this is all really good to know. One other point that I think has come up on this forum is that if you have AH off, the parking brake doesn't engage, even if you have set the stick to 'P'. Is that right?
 
#8 ·
Correct, they work together so if AH is off, you apply the PB manually. Personally I have got used to only using AH when I need to (extended hold ups or steep gradients) and applying the PB when I stop manually permanently.
 
#9 ·
luca said:
Thanks, this is all really good to know. One other point that I think has come up on this forum is that if you have AH off, the parking brake doesn't engage, even if you have set the stick to 'P'. Is that right?
You don't ever really need the parking brake when you are in Park though. There can be a tiny amount of rollback but that is it. In other DSG cars I rarely ever engaged the handbrake when parked except when on a steep slope.
 
#10 ·
Fred99 said:
Correct, they work together so if AH is off, you apply the PB manually. Personally I have got used to only using AH when I need to (extended hold ups or steep gradients) and applying the PB when I stop manually permanently.
Thanks, that sounds like what I will do too. If the PB is engaged, is it true it will automatically disengage when you take off, so no need to manually do so?
 
G
#11 ·
AndyE14 said:
You don't ever really need the parking brake when you are in Park though. There can be a tiny amount of rollback but that is it. In other DSG cars I rarely ever engaged the handbrake when parked except when on a steep slope.
I would not rely on DSG parking lock only! When I bought my first DSG car many years ago, there was lot of talk about DSG parking locks failing in Norway. They literally snapped off and the car rolled downhill. Of course, Norway does have pretty hilly terrain. :) I don't remember reading about these failures in any other country. But still, even the dealer who sold me my Ateca, advised me to always use parking brake. He stated that DSG parking locks are "notoriously weak".

Also, if you don't use parking brake, the stick will be harder to move away from the P position. That's because the whole weight of the car is on the parking lock latch.
 
#14 ·
Wookiee said:
I thought only Americans were so lazy that they didn't bother to use the parking brake in addition to putting an auto in 'P'. :)
Why bother though? Park locks the transmission?
 
#15 ·
AndyE14 said:
Why bother though? Park locks the transmission?
Why not? Belt and braces. I wouldn't be spending £000s on a car and then not using the most basic method of securing it, particularly when it literally takes half a second to do so.
 
#16 ·
I think that, in a nutshell, the parking brake is safer and designed to hold the car in place when parked. It's true that the transmission is physically locked in park but why trust to that and put the transmission under unnecessary strain when you've got a parking brake purouse made to do the job. Personally I leave autohold on most of the time and the parking brake automatically applies when I'm parked but I hope to never get so lazy that I can't be arsed to pull a little lever when I park or push it when I drive away.....
 
#17 ·
7 Years of DSG Ownership with 2 GTR's (and the 3rd on order) having considerably more expensive gearboxes than the Ateca leaving it in P rather than using the brake and having zero adverse effect have taught me not to be paranoid about these things.

There is nothing to be gained from adding a handbrake to a DSG or Auto Car in Park Mode. Accept if you have Autohold on it is effortless but there is nothing in the least intuitive about a parking brake button and it is a timewasting activity to engage manually. On a steep slope just leaving it in park is a bad thing as you will disengage the brake and roll accidentally when moving from P if not careful but on the flat it makes little sense.
 
#18 ·
It's called _PARKING_ brake, right?
If there were absolutely no purpose of it being there, wouldn't SEAT have made sure they took it away for good?
Go figure...

One mishap is all it takes and could literally change some unlucky bastards life completely due to negligance from the driver who parked the car in a faulty way.
And the unlucky bastard I'm referring to is the one/those who are unfortunate enough to come in the runaway cars way.
 
#20 ·
One situation where I would definitely NOT recommend using it is if you are using Park Assist. The whole maneuver can then be carried out by only using the brake and the creep effect. When it asks you to reverse for a few inches, you really don't want to worry about throttle control!
 
#21 ·
BMS said:
It's called _PARKING_ brake, right?
If there were absolutely no purpose of it being there, wouldn't SEAT have made sure they took it away for good?
Go figure...

One mishap is all it takes and could literally change some unlucky bastards life completely due to negligance from the driver who parked the car in a faulty way.
And the unlucky bastard I'm referring to is the one/those who are unfortunate enough to come in the runaway cars way.
How can you have a mishap when the transmission is physically locked in place (like leaving the car in gear in a manual)?

Having a parking brake is a legal requirement as I understand it for all car types as there are certain circumstances when even an Auto will need it and most in the UK still drive manual cars. For most day to day parking needs the parking brake is redundant in a DSG (leaving autohold aside) people only engage it out of habit not need.
 
G
#22 ·
AndyE14 said:
How can you have a mishap when the transmission is physically locked in place (like leaving the car in gear in a manual)?
As I said in my previous post, there have been cases where the parking lock latch has failed on a DSG transmission, causing the car to roll down the hill. If the SEAT dealer tells me to NOT trust on a DSG parking lock, I think it's better to do as he says.

And have you not noticed, that if the car is even on a very small incline, it's sometimes quite hard to get the gear stick to move from P to any other position? That's because the weight of the car is on a parking lock latch, resisting it's movement. If you engage parking brake first, then release foot brake, and only after that move the lever to P, the weight of the car is not on the latch and it's easier to move the stick next time.

 
#23 ·
No argument from me about being on an incline, I always use the PB on an incline but not on level ground.
 
#24 ·
I was at the SEAT service today for regular oil change on my Leon and while waiting for it I saw a test Ateca parked outside. And since I ordered mine without even testing Ateca, I asked them how I can test-drive it and they said: let's just do it :) It was a XCellence DSG 4Drive model (diesel, not sure which one exactly). No need to repeat what everyone know about Ateca, I really liked the drive and find it very comfortable, compared to my Leon FR, so it really seems firmness is in the eye of the beholder :)

Anyway, tested the Auto-Hold and indeed when taking off from full stop and engine stopped by the start/stop, there's some slight harshness. I tried to touch very slightly the throttle before that however it seemed like very unnatural, so I just disabled the Auto-Hold and things are much better, so I'll most probably do that when I get mine. Besides, I prefer to have the creep when releasing the brake which seems natural to me, mimicking the clutch slippage on a manual, rather than pressing the throttle.
 
#25 ·
One more question. How do you know that Auto Hold is currently holding the car? I mean, when the button LED is on that means Auto Hold functionality might engage under certain conditions, but how do you actually know when the car is really being held so you can release the brake and if that's a DSG the car won't start creeping forward?
 
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